| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Poll: Has a proofreader ever "ruined" a translation you've done? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| Been mostly out of luck in this department | Aug 24, 2021 |
Recently, I received a thouroughly revamped version of an article I'd translated, which came complete with emotional comments about how badly I'd mistranslated what the authors meant to say. They attached two examples of such 'mistranslations' placed side by side with their 'correct' versions, which were just chains of words taken from a dictionary and neatly arranged. I asked them a dozen questions about how those words were supposed to be related and what the whole thing was supposed to mean. ... See more Recently, I received a thouroughly revamped version of an article I'd translated, which came complete with emotional comments about how badly I'd mistranslated what the authors meant to say. They attached two examples of such 'mistranslations' placed side by side with their 'correct' versions, which were just chains of words taken from a dictionary and neatly arranged. I asked them a dozen questions about how those words were supposed to be related and what the whole thing was supposed to mean. They gave no answers. It was not my problem that the source text was quite obscure, but I'd done my best to retrieve any meanings and connections the authors had packed into their work and to express them clearly in the target language, although this took me quite a lot of paraphrasing. They paid me for that translation in full, but it would still make me sad if I learned that some of the solutions I'd come up with via strenuous research had been ditched in favor of those MT-like word chains (any of which I could have whipped out with zero research). Anyway, most of the time my work gets delivered to the customer as is because I am a full-time editor, and this is pretty stressful. I'd rather have someone competent to take a fresh look at my deliverables ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Quite often in EN>JA | Oct 23, 2022 |
I work in English-Japanese (both directions, mostly JA>EN) and have seen my EN>JA translations ruined by inexperienced reviewers, but not so often in the other direction (although I have come across some nit-pickers).
Inexperienced EN>JA reviewers tend to make unnecessary paraphrasing everywhere with typos and awkward word choices.
This leads to a nightmare if the project manager does not understand Japanese.
A number of instances of ruined JA>EN translation I've ... See more I work in English-Japanese (both directions, mostly JA>EN) and have seen my EN>JA translations ruined by inexperienced reviewers, but not so often in the other direction (although I have come across some nit-pickers).
Inexperienced EN>JA reviewers tend to make unnecessary paraphrasing everywhere with typos and awkward word choices.
This leads to a nightmare if the project manager does not understand Japanese.
A number of instances of ruined JA>EN translation I've ever experienced were done by native Japanese speakers. It was obvious that the culprits were native Japanese speakers because almost every English sentence I wrote was altered using the Grammar-Translation Method, which every Japanese kid learns at school. English sentences translated from Japanese using that method is almost always incomprehensible to native English speakers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nadja Balogh 
Germany
Local time: 23:48
Member (2007)
Japanese to German
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| Very enlightening! | Oct 23, 2022 |
Nami Matsumoto wrote:
It was obvious that the culprits were native Japanese speakers because almost every English sentence I wrote was altered using the Grammar-Translation Method, which every Japanese kid learns at school. English sentences translated from Japanese using that method is almost always incomprehensible to native English speakers.
This is so good to know! I often need to work with English source texts which are actually translations of Japanese done by native Japanese translators, and I have always wondered why they would all turn out so consistently terrible. (I always ask for the Japanese source because indeed the English is often hardly comprehensible.)
I used to think that it was merely due to the fact that Japanese speakers simply tend to make the same type of mistake, but after reading about this "Grammar-Translation Method", I can now see that there is a system behind this...
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 17:48
Japanese to English
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| proofreader ruining translators | Oct 24, 2022 |
Yes. I remember a proofreader going through a patent translation of mine. They started out by "correcting" "Japan Patent Agency" to 'Japanese Patent Agency" which is faute grave. Many other bloopers followed.
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IrinaN
United States
Local time: 16:48
English to Russian
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| No or I don't know | Oct 24, 2022 |
My editors can't possibly do it.
In case of no feedback and timely payment I don't care.
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 17:48
German to English
I've been translating for a medical publisher for a long time and haven't given much thought to what happens to my translations after submission. I recently had the opportunity to see my work in print and almost had a stroke. There were phrases that I couldn't have possibly written, misspelling and typos (I always run a spelling check after I edit to avoid introducing errors into the text). My translation had obviously been revised my a non-native speaker. I can't imagine the processes the text ... See more I've been translating for a medical publisher for a long time and haven't given much thought to what happens to my translations after submission. I recently had the opportunity to see my work in print and almost had a stroke. There were phrases that I couldn't have possibly written, misspelling and typos (I always run a spelling check after I edit to avoid introducing errors into the text). My translation had obviously been revised my a non-native speaker. I can't imagine the processes the text went through, since typographically the article was a mess: words were hyphenated mid-line (e.g., form-ation), even though I never use line justification which might introduce word hyphenation.
It was certainly a demotivating experience.
A friend reminded me that since my name wasn't attached to the published article, and I had been paid, I shouldn't really care.
At an earlier stage in my career I might have brought the issue up with the project manager, but now with retirement on the horizon, I have the consolation that the money is good and I get paid on time, no matter the fate of my work. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Happens now and then | Feb 24, 2023 |
It happens to me now and then. I always like to say that a bad proofreader is even worse than a bad translator. In addition, I had to do some explanation to the person who validated the translation why I wasn't following the guidelines. Not a pleasant experience, especially since it happened early on in my translation career.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 23:48
French to English
I'm all in favour of others proofreading my work. Nobody is perfect, so it stands to reason that another pair of eyes might pick up an inaccurate or imprecise element in my translation.
When I worked at the agency, the person assigned to proofread my work was a legal translator. Her legal translations were always excellent, she did the research, she made sure to be very precise, it was very much the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
But when it came to proofreading m... See more I'm all in favour of others proofreading my work. Nobody is perfect, so it stands to reason that another pair of eyes might pick up an inaccurate or imprecise element in my translation.
When I worked at the agency, the person assigned to proofread my work was a legal translator. Her legal translations were always excellent, she did the research, she made sure to be very precise, it was very much the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
But when it came to proofreading my translations, she could be rather pedantic. I was already pretty much specialised in translations that required a creative element, and she had a lot of trouble with the fact that in fashion or music or descriptions of water parks and festivals, it was more important to write something that would appeal to a native English-speaking readership than to translate exactly what the source text said.
One day I had to translate a press release announcing the opening of a nightclub with an African theme. The text touched on the sensuality of the music, and I hit upon "Afrodisiac" as a way to describe the music. The proofreader scratched that and replaced it with "sensual" as in the French, informing me that since there were no puns in the French, I should not introduce any in the English.
At the last minute, I rebelled, and put "Afrodisiac" back into the text just before sending it to the client.
The next day, I received a gushing email from the client, telling me he loved my translation and had changed the French text to include "afrodisiaque", because it was such a good pun. ▲ Collapse
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finnword1
United States
Local time: 17:48
English to Finnish
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I used to translate directly for a huge US company. They coordinated the work themselves and maintained their own TM. The coordinator was a native speaker of the target language, with Masters Degree in Engineering. Then some brilliant upper management "executive" decided to outsource the translation work to a translation agency and the proofreading to a different agency. Obviously the second one wanted to show how much better they were, by changing as much as possible, often contrary to the esta... See more I used to translate directly for a huge US company. They coordinated the work themselves and maintained their own TM. The coordinator was a native speaker of the target language, with Masters Degree in Engineering. Then some brilliant upper management "executive" decided to outsource the translation work to a translation agency and the proofreading to a different agency. Obviously the second one wanted to show how much better they were, by changing as much as possible, often contrary to the established TM, or in violation of the writing rules, developed by the Carnegie Mellon University, set up specifically for this company's technical writers.
(ps. I no longer work for them) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Other side of the coin | May 30, 2023 |
I'm sure that many proofreaders often mishandle what would otherwise be a well-executed translation.
I do a significant amount of proofreading myself. The initial challenge lies in the varying definitions of proofreading held by different individuals. For some, it entails addressing basic grammar and spelling errors. Others encompass stylistic improvements in addition to grammar/spelling. Some include the task of rectifying any fundamental translation inaccuracies along with gramma... See more I'm sure that many proofreaders often mishandle what would otherwise be a well-executed translation.
I do a significant amount of proofreading myself. The initial challenge lies in the varying definitions of proofreading held by different individuals. For some, it entails addressing basic grammar and spelling errors. Others encompass stylistic improvements in addition to grammar/spelling. Some include the task of rectifying any fundamental translation inaccuracies along with grammar/spelling and style adjustments. Different terms are even employed to describe these distinct scopes of proofreading.
Proofreaders frequently exercise a certain degree of discretion in determining the extent of their involvement. I'm sure the translators whose work I proofread see some of the changes I make as excessively meticulous, and indeed, some of them might be. However, if I believe that a reasonable edit can enhance the text, I proceed with it. Translation and proofreading are both subsets of writing. In addition to ensuring the accuracy of the translation itself, each individual has their own unique style and sensibility, and subjectivity inevitably plays a role in this process. The ProZ translation subforums show this reality on the daily. ▲ Collapse
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...and one time it was an earlier classmate of mine who is working as a consultant for several agencies because of his high KudoZ ranking, combined with his reputation as a retired officer of the German Luftwaffe, which seems to some people a per se qualification for good quality in every aspect. I didn't know that it was he, who choose me for that translation test, only to cut it into ribbons then and return it back to me via that agency with his name in capitals in the file name.
... See more ...and one time it was an earlier classmate of mine who is working as a consultant for several agencies because of his high KudoZ ranking, combined with his reputation as a retired officer of the German Luftwaffe, which seems to some people a per se qualification for good quality in every aspect. I didn't know that it was he, who choose me for that translation test, only to cut it into ribbons then and return it back to me via that agency with his name in capitals in the file name.
The other time it was a translation for a prospective direct client, a native German engineer, who first wrote the text directly out of his head into English, to save time. Later he employed me via proz to translate it back into German, with no reference texts, style guides, term lists, or whatever, and he was shocked, that I didn't hit exactly what he had in mind as a draft only in his head when writing directly into English. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I've had a few... | Dec 10, 2023 |
I'm not getting overly attached to my output. Unless I get to put my name on it (which is almost never) it's for the client to butcher in whatever manner they please. However, there are lines in the sand for "customer being always right".
Way back when I would still pick up any job without thinking twice about verifying who I am working with. There were clients (sadly, it wasn't an isolated incident) who tried to force a rebate by claiming the quality was poor. I knew I might have l... See more I'm not getting overly attached to my output. Unless I get to put my name on it (which is almost never) it's for the client to butcher in whatever manner they please. However, there are lines in the sand for "customer being always right".
Way back when I would still pick up any job without thinking twice about verifying who I am working with. There were clients (sadly, it wasn't an isolated incident) who tried to force a rebate by claiming the quality was poor. I knew I might have lost a comma or two in the heat of battle, but poor quality? Upon inspecting the "proofreader's" notes, I discovered they would just replace words with synonyms straight from the thesaurus (some of them hilariously off, in the given context) and add (unnecessary) articles, claiming unacceptable quality and that the text required a lot of work on their end. Naturally, I took offense. Told them to get someone on board who actually knows the language and followed up with a call for payment sent by registered mail.
...and we walked our separate ways, working happily ever after.
However, my favorite is still when a "proofreader" insists my American spelling is not good English (yeah, I am aware of the ancient feud).
Always makes me wonder if they rage at websites for not using biscuits.
I have no bone to pick with actual proofreaders and value their help immensely, which is why I was putting the earlier ones in "".
Having done proofreading myself, the toughest part of the job is admitting that there is nothing wrong with this particular passage of text.
Could be there's a deeply rooted fear that if you don't correct a text enough, someone might call you out: what are we even paying you for?
I'm all for perfectionism, but a good proofreader must be able to tell actual flaws from idiosyncrasies. ▲ Collapse
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I consider myself fortunate as I had the opportunity to collaborate with exceptional proofreaders.
| | | | | Not that I can remember | Jan 30 |
I can't remember a prooferader ever ruining a translation of mine. But I have met some who feel the need to change every little thing just because THEY think it's better. Worse still, this has been in in-house jobs where the proofreaders in question were colleagues. How can you work with someone who rubbishes your work all the time?
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
The question should be
Has a proofreader ever not "ruined" a translation you've done?
In my own experience it happens every time. But I see there are a few who like it.
[Edited at 2024-01-30 17:23 GMT]
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