| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Kudoz abuse? Thread poster: Per Bergvall
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Ildiko Santana 
United States
Local time: 15:34
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
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MODERATOR | it's been nice knowing you, Ryan.... ;) | Jul 1, 2010 |
ryancolm wrote:
One of the reasons I stopped answering KudoZ terms years ago (I do ask terms occasionally) was the precise problem of this race-to-be-first-to-answer. Back then I was too polite to bluntly "disagree" with a simplistic answer and tell the person where to get off. Now I'm no longer polite, to those guys anyway, and I am going to rain down upon them like Jules out of Pulp Fiction every time I see them posting a word-for-word translation with "an idea" in the explanation field, or copying-and-pasting a Google search.
IT>EN Kudoz abusers, you have been warned. You know who you are...
I hate to burst your bubble, but staff will make sure you don't do this for long. (Speaking from personal experience.) The catch is that you are only allowed to comment based on *linguistic* aspects (I wish we had the same rule when it come to *answers*!), and the speed of answers or lack of coherent explanation and reference are *not* considered as such.
Actually, I only hope you were joking. In the big scheme of things, does it really matter who abuses the system and why and how, and whether they can get away with it? Why waste your time when there are so many other ways to invest your energy in more productive things? Build glossaries, produce awesome translations, attend or offer online training sessions, plant flowers, call up an old friend, walk the dog....
Piece!
: )
[Edited at 2010-07-01 17:27 GMT]
| | | | Colin Ryan (X)
Local time: 00:34
Italian to English
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| Nice knowing you too, ildiko! :-) | Jul 2, 2010 |
I've already been slapped on the wrist by the staff for getting up close and personal on Kudoz. So now I work within the rules.
And I've already noticed a major drop-off in people abusing IT>EN in this manner. Probably they're just waiting for me to tire of the exercise and go away. I'm just waiting for them to come back and try again.
It's boring working at home, y'know, and I need something to vent my frustration on... so they're doing me a favour, really...
| | | | | @ryancolm: Filtering | Jul 2, 2010 |
I have started filtering certain askers out, so I dont't see their questions, since the kudoz settings offer this possibility
However, there is no option to filter out certain answerers :-0
| | | | Colin Ryan (X)
Local time: 00:34
Italian to English
+ ...
| Filtering, schmiltering... what they need is a good kick up the [NO CHARS LEFT] | Jul 2, 2010 |
It all started when some guy submitted an "answer" to a kudoz question of mine that was clearly a pro question and open to serious interpretation. The "answer" was a literal translation backed up with an entry copied & pasted from an online dictionary!!
If I'd been in the same room as this guy I think I'd have slapped him or something. What a patronising thing to do to anyone, but especially to a professional peer. It was a direct insult to my intelligence, so I have absolutely no p... See more It all started when some guy submitted an "answer" to a kudoz question of mine that was clearly a pro question and open to serious interpretation. The "answer" was a literal translation backed up with an entry copied & pasted from an online dictionary!!
If I'd been in the same room as this guy I think I'd have slapped him or something. What a patronising thing to do to anyone, but especially to a professional peer. It was a direct insult to my intelligence, so I have absolutely no problem with insulting him, directly. Which I did, and abundantly, and he took it up with the moderators, who deleted my comments. So I changed tack and, um, "praised" him, piling on the sarcasm. He didn't like that, either, and he got it removed.
I've noticed he's kept a low profile in my pairs for a while, so I guess he's got the message. But when he comes back (and he will - in his kudoz history I saw that he's been doing this for many months now) I'll be waiting.
Should I change my screen name to Leon? You know, The Cleaner in Nikita? ▲ Collapse
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Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:34
French to English
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| Daily abuser-? | Aug 1, 2010 |
Rob Grayson wrote:
I believe the problem has become/is becoming worse than previous posts suggest. It is not limited to askers posting questions on specialised terminology with which they ought to be familiar before accepting jobs; far from it. There are increasingly frequent questions posted (and as "Pro" questions to boot) on the most basic of words and expressions with which any speaker of the source language ought to be familiar, let alone any half-competent translator. ... One can only conclude that certain individuals are marketing their services as professional translators while lacking the most basic understanding of the language(s) with which they are working. Note that those concerned are often, but by no means exclusively, translating into a non-native language.
What is equally striking is the number of answers and the amount of discussion that is often triggered by such shockingly easy questions. If one dares to suggest that the question is rather easy, the riposte often comes back that the question would not have generated so much response if it were so easy. Could it instead be the case that most of those responding are themselves only capable of working at the most basic level?
This dumbing-down process, as measured by the incidence of embarrassingly easy KudoZ questions, seems to have accelerated rapidly in the last year.
Rob
Well, for some months, whenever I look at my language pair questions, there is one person who nearly always has c. 5 - 15 questions in at least one of the 3 pairs we share every day. Quite often the questions are not really in my field, but even I can see that a competent translator should be able to handle the terms without too much difficulty. I have thought of dePro-ing some questions, but then feel it would probably just look churlish, yet there are so many that are eligible! The questions tend to fill a significant area of the page listing all the questions in that pair; and somewhat exasperatingly, people continue to answer the questions posed by this person.
| | | | | Kudoz abuse or translation review abuse | Aug 2, 2010 |
Per Bergvall wrote:
I will continue to assist her whenever I can, as we are not in competition in neither language pairs nor specialisations. I do admire those who work in her subject fields, assisting her in completing what might have been their jobs, for no mentionable compensation at all.
So, are we allowing the Kudoz system to work in our disfavour, by helping fellow translators to complete work on subjects in which they have insufficient qualifications?
In a similar situation, I was requested to review translation tests to one agency I continued working with until that day. I gave assessment score carefully. In the next week, this agency told me that 2 of many translations of me to the agency were extremely bad and declined to pay for the jobs even I worked for this agency for 4 years.
This may not be a Kudoz ethical issue but a professional translation abuse (to pay for jobs cheaper to new translators based on kind assistance of other translators)
Regards,
Soonthon L.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:34
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| KudoZ abusers... | Aug 2, 2010 |
KudoZ abusers are NOT dangerous, simply because they are very poor translators. As such, they can hardly hurt anyone ( in the pro arena).
Comical yes, dangerous no.
| | | | | Who can that be? | Aug 2, 2010 |
Rachel Fell wrote: Rob Grayson wrote:
I believe the problem has become/is becoming worse than previous posts suggest. It is not limited to askers posting questions on specialised terminology with which they ought to be familiar before accepting jobs; far from it. There are increasingly frequent questions posted (and as "Pro" questions to boot) on the most basic of words and expressions with which any speaker of the source language ought to be familiar, let alone any half-competent translator. ... One can only conclude that certain individuals are marketing their services as professional translators while lacking the most basic understanding of the language(s) with which they are working. Note that those concerned are often, but by no means exclusively, translating into a non-native language.
What is equally striking is the number of answers and the amount of discussion that is often triggered by such shockingly easy questions. If one dares to suggest that the question is rather easy, the riposte often comes back that the question would not have generated so much response if it were so easy. Could it instead be the case that most of those responding are themselves only capable of working at the most basic level?
This dumbing-down process, as measured by the incidence of embarrassingly easy KudoZ questions, seems to have accelerated rapidly in the last year.
Rob Well, for some months, whenever I look at my language pair questions, there is one person who nearly always has c. 5 - 15 questions in at least one of the 3 pairs we share every day. Quite often the questions are not really in my field, but even I can see that a competent translator should be able to handle the terms without too much difficulty. I have thought of dePro-ing some questions, but then feel it would probably just look churlish, yet there are so many that are eligible! The questions tend to fill a significant area of the page listing all the questions in that pair; and somewhat exasperatingly, people continue to answer the questions posed by this person.
Absolutely infamous, but I'm particularly struck with the way the questions are posed 'I am struggling with' - you most certainly are....and in so many languages.
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| Struggling to translate between two foreign languages | Aug 3, 2010 |
Susanna Garcia wrote: Rachel Fell wrote: Rob Grayson wrote:
I believe the problem has become/is becoming worse than previous posts suggest. It is not limited to askers posting questions on specialised terminology with which they ought to be familiar before accepting jobs; far from it. There are increasingly frequent questions posted (and as "Pro" questions to boot) on the most basic of words and expressions with which any speaker of the source language ought to be familiar, let alone any half-competent translator. ... One can only conclude that certain individuals are marketing their services as professional translators while lacking the most basic understanding of the language(s) with which they are working. Note that those concerned are often, but by no means exclusively, translating into a non-native language.
What is equally striking is the number of answers and the amount of discussion that is often triggered by such shockingly easy questions. If one dares to suggest that the question is rather easy, the riposte often comes back that the question would not have generated so much response if it were so easy. Could it instead be the case that most of those responding are themselves only capable of working at the most basic level?
This dumbing-down process, as measured by the incidence of embarrassingly easy KudoZ questions, seems to have accelerated rapidly in the last year.
Rob Well, for some months, whenever I look at my language pair questions, there is one person who nearly always has c. 5 - 15 questions in at least one of the 3 pairs we share every day. Quite often the questions are not really in my field, but even I can see that a competent translator should be able to handle the terms without too much difficulty. I have thought of dePro-ing some questions, but then feel it would probably just look churlish, yet there are so many that are eligible! The questions tend to fill a significant area of the page listing all the questions in that pair; and somewhat exasperatingly, people continue to answer the questions posed by this person. Absolutely infamous, but I'm particularly struck with the way the questions are posed 'I am struggling with' - you most certainly are....and in so many languages.
Perhaps this person constantly maxes out on the number of allowed questions because both the source language and target language are foreign languages. Even trying to translate from the actual native language to the 'declared' second native language (I wish Proz would put a stop to all the phony native language claims) seems to pose great problems.
The only good news is that a lot of the 'help' is way off the mark but because the Asker has no idea, it's accepted and used. Poetic justice.
| | | | Radosveta Golden
United States
Local time: 18:34
Member (2010)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
| Sincerely, I haven`t thought about this aspect of answering questions | Aug 3, 2010 |
It`s not like I have been a Proz member for a long time anyway. Somehow I found answering these KudoZ questions as a way of being useful (to the best of my knowledge). However, it came on me, and even more than once, that I would never have the mental stamina (so to speak) to get a job, post a word and wait to see who, when and how will respond. I don`t know what deadlines other people have and how many projects they handle per day, per week, etc., what their output is, or their reference resour... See more It`s not like I have been a Proz member for a long time anyway. Somehow I found answering these KudoZ questions as a way of being useful (to the best of my knowledge). However, it came on me, and even more than once, that I would never have the mental stamina (so to speak) to get a job, post a word and wait to see who, when and how will respond. I don`t know what deadlines other people have and how many projects they handle per day, per week, etc., what their output is, or their reference resources. I simply cannot be adventurous enough to leave the deadline and the quality to the "mercy" of people I hardly know. No offence. What if all responses are implausable or what if I don`t get any response (any credible response) in a day or two? Hmmm, am I the only one with deadlines that don`t stretch from here to eternity? If some people rely mostly on KudoZ answers to translate their basic terminology, then how long will it take them to acomplish a task? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:34
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
writeaway wrote:
I wish Proz would put a stop to all the phony native language claims
I've seen some comical characters in my language pair claiming English as their native language, when it's obvious it isn't. Even worse, they firmly believe it's not clear their English is just "fairly good" but not native. This way, they are underestimating and disrespecting other colleagues' intelligence and perception. And I think it's very rude.
[Edited at 2010-08-03 07:02 GMT]
| | | | Colin Ryan (X)
Local time: 00:34
Italian to English
+ ...
| Here's one solution that should help... | Aug 3, 2010 |
I've submitted an idea to the Proz.com ideas site, asking to be able to flag answerers as well as askers. I suppose we'll never be able to filter out timewasters altogether, but at least we can stop Kudoz timewasters from bothering US...
Click on my "idea" and vote for me! ... See more I've submitted an idea to the Proz.com ideas site, asking to be able to flag answerers as well as askers. I suppose we'll never be able to filter out timewasters altogether, but at least we can stop Kudoz timewasters from bothering US...
Click on my "idea" and vote for me!
http://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37454-kudoz/suggestions/904897-in-kudoz-dashboard-allow-us-to-flag-answerers-as-?ref=title ▲ Collapse
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ryancolm wrote: Click on my "idea" and vote for me!
However, sorry, but I do not see the point of flagging the answerer unless it is visible to all users/members thus alerting the asker (and users/members) that the answerer is a 'wild guesser'.
| | | | Colin Ryan (X)
Local time: 00:34
Italian to English
+ ...
| Interesting idea... | Aug 3, 2010 |
Mira Stepanovic wrote:
However, sorry, but I do not see the point of flagging the answerer unless it is visible to all users/members thus alerting the asker (and users/members) that the answerer is a 'wild guesser'.
Hmm. We could do that, too... Alongside the peer's WWA, you can see "This peer is a certified idiot and timewaster who has no clue how to translate"
(edited, I realised it looked as if I was insulting Mira directly, sorreee!)
[Edited at 2010-08-03 09:45 GMT]
| | | | | That would be great | Aug 3, 2010 |
in some cases, but I doubt that it would be acceptable.
ryancolm wrote:
Hmm. We could do that, too... Alongside the peer's WWA, you can see "This peer is a certified idiot and timewaster who has no clue how to translate"
A small red flag next to the name in KudoZ answers would be sufficient to do the trick IMO.
P.S. Some answerers in my (small) language pairs really need to be flagged for the benefit of all.
[Edited at 2010-08-03 10:09 GMT]
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